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Dynamic grid makes me sick :(

Started by David.P, May 15, 2014, 01:00:06 PM

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David.P

Hi forum,

in short, is there some 'smart' way to have a (dynamic) grid setting where things do NOT fall off the grid alignment when changing the page view zoom?

This would save me SO much grey hair :/



Full page view: things nicely snap to the grid.


zoom in: *shock*


zoom in further: what the h***?

Thanks lots in advance,
Cheers David.P
Visio 2003 for production
Visio 2019

Jumpy

You can use a fixed grid that doesn't change the spacing between the lines everytime you zoom. In older Visio's you could fix it somewhere in the options or page setup. IMHO better is to forget the grid and either use the Size- and Position-Window to place a shape exactly where you wan't it, or to use those helpfull line that you can drag out of the rulers.

David.P

#2
Thanks -- but i would rather not use the fixed grid, mainly because it looks disruptive (deep black lines all over the paper) when zoomed out completely.

Normally, i also use only the guidelines. But for very schematic drawings starting from an empty sheet of paper, i like to use the grid.

Regards David.P
Visio 2003 for production
Visio 2019

Yacine

Put a minimum spacing greater than 0.
I did not experiment that much, but having the grid set to "normal" and minimum spacing 2mm worked fine.
Yacine

David.P

Sorry, this is what I had already set anyway. Didn't help :(

In Visio 2003, that is.

Regards David.P
Visio 2003 for production
Visio 2019

David.P

....and why are those grid sizes just so much off from what I set in "minimum distance" ("Minimaler Abstand")?



That square should of course be 10x10mm, not some crooked number like 10,58 :(

Damn, what is wrong with this grid...?
Visio 2003 for production
Visio 2019

David.P

Same grid, smaller zoom level:



I can't believe it :(
Visio 2003 for production
Visio 2019

David.P

Visio 2003 for production
Visio 2019

wapperdude

The behavior doesn't seem normal (to me, anyway) based upon past experience.  But, I tried both English & metric configurations focusing on both size changes and off-grid jumping.  Whatever size I set the shapes to be when drawn, the Size & Position window correctly displayed the width and height for the shape.  The dynamic grid will result with shapes being either on- or off-grid depending upon zoom factor.

For V2007:
Size Consistency:
>>  It was independent of zoom factor:  went from 20% (zoomed out) to max zoom in
>>  It was independent of grid setting:  fine, normal, coarse
>>  It was independent of minimum grid spacing.
>>  It was independent of ruler settings.
>>  It was independent of strength of snap settings:  tried range from 1 to 12.
>>  It was independent of shape configuration, specific square or circle.

Grid Alignment:
This is very dependent on settings.  For metric, setting min grid to 1mm generally produced better results than 2mm.  Fine setting seemed to be more appropriate than normal or coarse.

So, the questions that come to mind:
1.  Does this happen with all drawings that you make, or is it just this specific file?
2.  Have you tried entering the correct width / height sizes via the Size and Position window?  If so, do they still vary with zoom factor?

Wapperdude

Visio 2019 Pro

David.P

#9
Thanks very much Wapper,

sorry for not being precise enough -- pls. note that the square's size doesn't change by itself with zoom ratio -- I re-snapped the square to the (dynamic) grid on every zoom level.

Do you see round numbers for their size when snapping things to a dynamic grid of, say, "fine" and min spacing "2mm" ?

Regards David

PS: with a fixed grid, the grid spacing is exactly what it says in the grid settings.
Visio 2003 for production
Visio 2019

wapperdude

The numbers always remain precise, regardless of settings.  I'm attaching my test file.  See if it performs as expected on your system.

Wapperdude
Visio 2019 Pro

David.P

I think I still was not expressing myself precise enough:

"pls. note that the square's size doesn't change by itself with zoom ratio -- I re-snapped and re-sized the square to the (dynamic) grid on every zoom level."


This leads to crooked numbers that are never a multiple of any grid size, as depicted. (The same happens with your test file, thank you).

Anyway, I'll switch to a fixed grid now. I discovered that by setting:
HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Office\11.0\Visio\Colors\ "ColorGridForeground"="246 246 246"

...the grid color for the fixed grid is perfectly acceptable (aka barely noticeable):


I might actually start to leave that grid switched on most of the time.

Thanks everyone,

Regards David.P
Visio 2003 for production
Visio 2019

wapperdude

OK.  Guess I heard what you said, but, I thought you were resizing to explore the problem.  As long as you have a solution that works, that's what matters.  Not sure why you would resize to fit the grid as you zoom in and out.  If you have set the snap and glue priority, it shouldn't matter if you're on grid or not.  Well, may be for connector routes between shapes when Visio determines the path.  But, generally speaking, you shouldn't be changing shape size nor position just to accommodate a particular zoom level.  That's totally counter-productive.  When you print, the grids don't unless you specifically request that they do.  But that's unusual.

Wapperdude
Visio 2019 Pro

Jumpy

Quote from: wapperdude on May 15, 2014, 10:21:56 PM
Not sure why you would resize to fit the grid as you zoom in and out.

The reason (I think) was only to demonstrate and measure the spacing between the gridlines and to show, that although the minimal distance is set to 2mm, the actual distances between lines in a certain zoom level is not a multiple of 2mm (for example 10mm at zoom level X) but some abitrary number like 10.58 mm.

I think like David that Visio is not optimal at that point. The internal function that calculates the grid-width depending on the zoom level should "round" to "good" numbers (integers, not floating point numbers), and idealy to multiples of the selected minimal grid width.

David.P

Quote from: wapperdude on May 15, 2014, 10:21:56 PM
Not sure why you would resize to fit the grid as you zoom in and out.
Yes, I never thought I would have to, since a grid that changes its own basis increment with zoom view ratio is of course pathetic, and something I would NEVER have expected, though experienced a hundred times, while thinking I must have been doing something wrong since drawing up fast and exact assemblies (to the grid) always seemed to be impossible.

Quote from: Jumpy on May 16, 2014, 06:53:00 AM
The reason (I think) was only to demonstrate and measure the spacing between the gridlines and to show, that although the minimal distance is set to 2mm, the actual distances between lines in a certain zoom level is not a multiple of 2mm (for example 10mm at zoom level X) but some abitrary number like 10.58 mm.
...and to show that even the spacing between the gridlines (even the SAME minimum gridlines) changes with zoom view ratio. Not to mention that those SAME grid lines move around on the page when changing the view zoom. This is useless, to say the least.

Quote from: Jumpy on May 16, 2014, 06:53:00 AMI think like David that Visio is not optimal at that point. The internal function that calculates the grid-width depending on the zoom level should "round" to "good" numbers (integers, not floating point numbers), and idealy to multiples of the selected minimal grid width.
I wouldn't care so much as long as those slightly odd numbers would not change, AND grid lines would not move around on the page with every zoom ratio.

This is like if you put yourself lots of guides for aligning and positioning things on the page, and then you zoom in for drawing some finer detail, and with every zoom step, your guides will un-snap from things, move around on the page, AND change their relative distances... That is lousy, useless and miserable.

Well anyway, using the fixed grid kind of solves all of the problems with the useless dynamic grid.

Thanks to you guys again,
Cheers David.P
Visio 2003 for production
Visio 2019

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