# Visio Guy

## Solution-specific Visio Discussions => Network Diagramming => Topic started by: cliff50 on September 05, 2020, 11:41:29 PM

Title: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: cliff50 on September 05, 2020, 11:41:29 PM
Has anyone tried or had experience with coding algorithms to find the shortest path between two shapes .

Consider a page full of circle shapes .. each circle is connected by a line to one or more other circles ... the layout of circles and lines on the page is entirely random.

I am contemplating how to best produce a shortest path between any of the two circles. ( a list or change color of lines on page)

Similar to the old paper based game, where you scribe a pencil through a maze from a starting point to a destination point.

Shortest path being defined as the least number of circle\ lines stepped across the page, to produce a consecutive path from circle point of departure to circle point of destination.

I know how to VBA code in Visio .. however, I am trying to think of a logical coding approach that will deliver a consistent result , regardless of the random arrangement of lines and circles.

The only given is -> every every line connects two circles.  number of circles (no limit) .. number of lines (no limit)

Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: vojo on September 06, 2020, 01:05:05 AM
since a given line may have N segments, probably should look at electrical signal routing algorithms

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Routing_(electronic_design_automation)

https://www.electronicsforu.com/resources/cool-stuff-misc/open-source-circuit-design-software

https://www.electronics-lab.com/top-10-free-pcb-design-software-2019/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_design_(electronics)#Routing

Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: Croc on September 06, 2020, 02:35:27 AM
Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: wapperdude on September 06, 2020, 12:53:37 PM
There's also this:  http://visguy.com/vgforum/index.php?topic=6373.msg26266#msg26266 (http://visguy.com/vgforum/index.php?topic=6373.msg26266#msg26266) regarding shortest path with variants.
Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: vojo on September 06, 2020, 02:21:18 PM
Dykstra / open shortest path first are direct lines approach.   I assume that if you have 3 shapes in a row, you want to find
the shortest path between the end shapes.

So a direct line approach would mean that shortest path between end shapes is a line thru the middle shape.
Is that what you want?  If so, Dykstra is father of this kind of approach.

However if you want the path between end shapes to NOT pass thru or under the middle shape than I think you need
consider the algorithms around physical design of cards or VLSI.

It all depends on what you are looking for.
Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: vojo on September 06, 2020, 02:29:24 PM
BTW, straight line is pretty simple in this context

2D
Xdistand = xpin of this shape - xpin of other shape
Ydistance = ypin of this shape - ypin of other shape
distance = sqrt(xdistance^2 + ydistance ^2)
build a table of distance by shape for this shape
table would give you a "star blast" of varying length lines from this shape.
use the shape id as key ==> distance to that shape.
This could be a moderate  VBA project.

if more of path around middle shapes

may also need to look at/for the place n route algorithms in visio.
not sure visio does this in VBA or C++

Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: cliff50 on September 21, 2020, 01:50:17 AM
OK   ... let me elaborate.

Shortest path in terms of least number of steps (nodes\circles) ..

I am dabbling with the conundrum of how to "document"  re-routing in an MPLS network.

In essence.  each electronic node is represented as a circle shape  the data bitstreams are represented by a line shape ... each circle (node) is connected to an adjacent circle via a bitstream (line) .

In real life . MPLS networks   are  interconnected nodes which form a mesh over a wide area (WAN) .

There is a need to document the interconnectivity of this mesh as a diagram which can "trace" re-routed paths when ever a link connection (line) is broken .

in real life when a link is broken , the Nodes use tables to establish the shortest detour around the break in terms of #1 node transitions  (LCR (least cost routing)..

my premise is that a visio manifestion of a MPLS network can be constructed so that  link disruptions can be  modelled in such a way to produce reports of how the re-routing shall occur around the break in the MPLS network.

I assume Visio attached to an ODBC data source is the best way forward.

By using the "connection collection " in the shapesheet  .. underlying data tables can be populated to rapidly determine which re-routed path uses the minimum number of nodes to detour around a broken link.

An MPLS model that delivers predicted path detours and anticipated service performance would be key to successful management of this type of network.

I have developed a rudimentary manifestation of this  and am open to critique and feedback . Others may have passed this way before.
Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: vojo on September 21, 2020, 06:42:10 AM
if this more of the number of hops thru intermediates shapes to get to target shape.
so path "cost" = number of shapes hopped  (A==> B==> C  would have a cost of 2).

So the question is not trying find a path around those shapes....but trying to find a path  thru the shapes.
Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: wapperdude on September 21, 2020, 08:21:31 AM
Did you look at the link I sent...even try it???

It takes a bunch of nodes arbitrarily interconnected via some sort of mesh and finds the shortest path between any two arbitrary nodes.

If you are trying to create a static table that ranks all paths between A and Z according to length, that could be  very large table depending upon the size of the network.  It would be humongous.  The size is simple permutation calculation.  Then add in the number of arbitrary two node combinations...Well forget it.  The table is so large it's useless.

With an accurate Visio diagram, you can choose two point in the active mesh, and the code will find the shortest path.  It's a simple solution based upon intervening number of nodes.  The algorithm could be embellished to include traffic volume limitations...but the code quickly becomes quite complex.
Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: cliff50 on September 21, 2020, 11:04:40 AM
Vojo .. yes , my interpretation of least cost routing   is "minimum number of nodes along the detour "

WapperDude  Yes i have tried your solution (in your link) using my Visio pro 2016 and your solution delivered the desired result (many thanks).

I tried using the examples you supplied  ... (my feedback for you) -> very quick response time. and the colouration very intuitive.

I will apply it to a real world WAN  map ( approx 350 nodes)  and see how it goes. (feedback for you).

Aside : others may interpret LCR (least cost routing) in terms of distance (miles or kilometres) ... hence a path along A->B->C->D->E  although it involves 5 nodes,  it accumulates distance on each link  for a  total of  only 20 miles..  and yet A->X->E  involves 3 nodes but travels a grand total of 30 miles.
From the perspective of communication transmission systems, the tyranny of distance infers a propagational delay. (albeit at the speed of light)

I think you infer that calculations concerning link distances can be coded into your algorithms.

Moving forward ...  application of this concept is to produce reports that measure the "robustness" of MPLS based network.

cheers
Cliff

Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: vojo on September 21, 2020, 10:13:00 PM
my point is that cost "thru nodes" can be drastically different than cost "around nodes"

For example,  picture this

B
A       C      E
D

Cost to got thru C to get to E  is much smaller than looping around B or D to get to E.

For the latter, you cant just do  sqrt((Ex-Ax)^2+(Ey-Ay)^2)  because the Y component could be as small as 0
you would need to do A to offset B + offset B to E to get to get true cost of that path.

What if

B
A         C       E
D

A, offset B, E has a different cost than A, offset D, E...so need true cost of each path to find shortest.

these examples ignore the possibility that B,C,D are spread out enough that you can go thru one of the gaps

maybe what you need to do is
1) realign nodes to the nearest 20mm or introduce fixed gaps for very close nodes (ie bring some order to node location)
2) compute lowest cost that should be different enough that some of the cases can be dismissed quickly.
3) maybe draw a multi segment line you can see what your algorithm pickrf as lowest cost path
maybe add curves at the bends for appearance (pretty simple for multi segment lines - 1 shape sheet cell).

or maybe calculate straight line from start node to end node...add some line ends and may place on a layer "below" node layer
so that as line pass below intermediate node, user knows line did not terminate on that intermediate node.

This a very complex problem but there are many many academic papers that have looked at this problem for 50 years.

Good luck.

good luck
Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: cliff50 on September 22, 2020, 05:57:42 AM
WapperDude
attached on Page 1 .. actual MPLS network mesh
circles =Node (locations)
lines = bitstreams.

I am not getting a consistent result . is this because there are too many nodes ?.

I see yellow coloration but not any green (I think green indicates the shortest path ).
the code seems to enumerate the number of links , however .... ?
Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: wapperdude on September 22, 2020, 08:04:02 AM
Will take a look at it.
Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: wapperdude on September 22, 2020, 09:02:23 AM
Seems to be working fine.  Methodology:
1) Select two nodes
2) Select path type (3rd choice is probably most appropriate)
3) Select Calculate Shortest Path
5) Hit continue
6) Close the Pop-up summary window
Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: cliff50 on September 22, 2020, 09:55:40 PM
Wapperdude ... yes it seems to be working now ..
Green denotes the shortest path ?
What does the Yellow denote ?

The image was only half populated with node location (because of 500 mb posting limit on this forum )
is there a link count limit in the code anywhere ? , because i want to test it out on the full network image.

Trying get my head around how the search occurs.. does your code examine every possibilty from origin to destination ?

Also .. what is the point of "bail out "  ergo, >  should no path be able to be discovered between origin and destination .. does that mean a loop counter has been exceeded .

Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: wapperdude on September 23, 2020, 01:06:00 AM
Yes.  Green is shortest path.
Yellow are the immediate paths from the starting node.
No, there is no inherent limit coded in.  Whatever tops out will be for "outside" reasons.

Generally, yes.  But, it only visits each path once.  It is based upon Dijkstra's algorithm.  The original link provides more detail, and the code actually has a lot of comments.

The bail-out, only occurs if you select either incoming or outgoing paths, which implies a specific direction.  If there's no way to get to the destination, then result is zero paths of the type selected will get you to Rome.
Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: cliff50 on September 23, 2020, 05:16:30 AM
Wapperdude  ... for the minute your solution is fit for purpose  ... (purpose being MPLS network evaluation tool).

I am unsure though ... why you went the extra mile  and include directional capability.  Perhaps this could be a model of street navigation (one way streets etc).

you must have been thinking outside the box  ;)

~ cheers
Cliff
Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: wapperdude on September 23, 2020, 09:17:56 AM
Just seemed like the right thing to do.  Another application could also be electronic circuits:  fundamentally, outputs drive inputs.  So, that's an exploitable feature.   Visio also has an unsung feature, the D-cell, for connection points.  That can be utilized to distinguish types of i/o:  inputs, outputs, tri-state, power, etc.

Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: cliff50 on October 01, 2020, 04:51:29 AM
Wapperdude ...  I realized the yellow coloration is crucial  to a consistent outcome.  I am unsure if the distancing calculation is incorporated into the outcome in any way ... it appears not .. but I will follow the "yellow brick road"
Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: wapperdude on October 01, 2020, 08:16:36 AM
Colored paths have secondary purpose... they indicate when a path has been counted.  The algorithm is based upon single traverse.
Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: Surrogate on December 16, 2020, 03:47:58 AM
few days ago i find this demo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znFO-PDOCp0) by Cliff A.
Perfect !
Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: cliff50 on December 18, 2020, 01:28:51 PM
modified version of wapperdudes solution.
my study of MPLS reveals there needs to be  conditional filters attached to the algorithm to determine if a physical path en route is available.
The filters are dedicated to resolving the following :
Bandwidth , Load balancing , or availability ( network impacts).

The directional component of the links in the original solution are not necessary in the study.
I feel the "logical" assignment of bandwidth on the physical links are mission critical for designing these type of networks.
work in progress.
cheers
Cliff
Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: Nikolay on December 18, 2020, 05:20:12 PM
few days ago i find this demo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znFO-PDOCp0) by Cliff A.

Just wondering why this video about finding shortest paths is marked 18+ ?! You have to verify your age to watch it. Well, I did and watched it to the end, but there are just lines, circles and rectangles. Am I missing something? ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: cliff50 on December 18, 2020, 05:57:59 PM
Nikolay,
I am no expert on posting youtube.(hence button +18).

The video is a demonstration of MPLS (multi path label switching) style of Network , using the developer version of Visio (professional).

From a transmission/network/bandwidth perspective the following abstract applies:
Evolution of topology PDH -> SDH-> MPLS.

PDH linear by nature, its bandwidth could be readily drawn on paper.
SDH non  linear, its bandwidth is "static" and configurable. When a link is impacted, alternate routing paths pre configured by human hand.
MPLS non linear , its bandwidth is dynamic . Alternate bandwidth is automatically configured using an algorithm based upon shortest path(least number of nodes).

The algorithm is very similar to Dijkstra's shortest path algorithm.

Regards the image interpretation.
the circles ostensibly represent Routers, the lines represent the physical connections between the routers. ( transmission links)
the numbers on the line represent how much bandwidth is spare on the link.

regards the audience.
a demonstration to show the possibilities, using the Visio platform, issues of MPLS bandwidth design and control.

any feedback appreciated.

regards
Cliff A.
Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: Nikolay on December 19, 2020, 04:56:47 AM
Dear Cliff, thank you for clarifying.
What I meant is that the video may be simply not accessible to most people because not everyone would go through age verification Now you see blank screen and "age verification required" button (with credit card or photo document). 18+ video usually means "adult" (porn) content, therefore it may be positioned incorrectly by youtube. "Only circles and rectangles (https://imgur.com/r/futurama/S0KYA76)" was meant merely as as a joke referring to "adult video" category, sorry.
Title: Re: find the shortest path between two shapes
Post by: cliff50 on December 19, 2020, 02:11:01 PM
Hi Nikolay,

Please, no need to apologize , I am the one in error. I didn't realize\ understand the consequences of the restriction 18 +
Thanks to your prudent observation -> I have amended the status.  update-> https://youtu.be/znFO-PDOCp0 (https://youtu.be/znFO-PDOCp0)

I really appreciate your and your fellow Visio artisans, contributions to this forum.

best wishes for the Christmas season Sir.
Cliff  :)