Creating RPG/Fiction family tree - help needed.

Started by wynnyelle, May 25, 2009, 06:38:08 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

wynnyelle

Hi. I'm new. I have been searching for a programme that would enable me to create a slick looking mass family tree for the RPG I'm in and help run. The game is huge, hundreds of active members and thousands of characters. I decided that, for easy reference purposes and just fun and because they would think it's cool I decided to start creating a mass family tree of all the related characters in the game, which number at least a thousand at this time.

I have mapped out some of it on paper; here is one piece:



I'm trying to use Visio to make this but I've been at it hours and still can't figure out how. The help index has never turned up any results for "family tree template" or anything else I ask it. Is someone here able to point me in the right direction? And is this even feasible?

I know I want each unit to have a headshot {I have the pics} 100 x 100 pixels or maybe 120 x 120, and below it, name, sex, and a couple other brief bits of info--nothing long. I have that designed on paper as well.

wapperdude

Yikes!   :o  Well, I think the place to start is the Org Chart feature of Visio.  This seems to be less of a family tree, and more of an org chart style drawing.  The Visio Help should give you some good info.  The Org Chart shapes allow you to insert pictures.  The main Visio website reference for Org Charts is here:  http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/visio/results.aspx?qu=org+chart&av=ZVO120.

There is a wizard which will allow you to export a chart to Excel, for example.  If you start with a simple chart, say three shapes, then the Excel file can be a template.  You can use the Excel file to record all of the data, and let the wizard import from Excel.  It creates a decent org chart, but, for your application, this is probably less satisfactory.  One caveat to the Org Chart.  A subordinate may have only 1 direct superior.  You can use the "dashed" line to show additional superiors (and change the dashed line to solid if you like.)

Anyway, that's where I'd begin with this.

HTH
Wapperdude
Visio 2019 Pro

wynnyelle

Right...while it is a family tree, technically, it is a lot more chaotic than anything a genealogy programme could handle. {So much for truth being stranger than fiction I guess!} And it is daunting. I don't have excel, only visio--I basically just need to be able to create a template and stamp out a similar unit for each character, switching in pictures, names, symbols, and text colours in some cases {not sure if there is a function that would allow text to be partially faded as opposed to full strength, which I want to use to indicate characters whose names appear on the tree, usually as parents, but never actually appeared in the story}. And from there, use solid lines {won't be using any dashes, it's going to have too many lines as it is} without any arrows or anything, just right angles. And to align the units in rows too if possibly. Makes it neater looking and I'm trying to fight the chaos as much as I can here.

I'll look at the help link you gave me and get back to you! Thanks a lot! :)

wapperdude

The other options would be flow chart, or just the basic stencil shapes.  Not sure how easy it is to insert pictures with these shapes as I've not tried to do that.

Another point about the Org Chart feature, on the menu bar, there is an Org Chart button.  Under this button there are a variety of options that may be invoked.  Be sure to explore this feature.  It is often overlooked.

Visio 2019 Pro

wynnyelle

Thanks, I'll look into it over the weekend...during the week I get no time to work on things like this. I should also add I'm completely new to the programme itself and have been fiddling around with it without much success but I'll give this a go on saturday.

Visio Guy

Org charts look like family trees, but they don't quite function the same, because there are always "two managers", if you know what I mean. The data import and automatic features of the org chart wizard won't be able to handle this unless each pair of parents is somehow combined into a single entry...
For articles, tips and free content, see the Visio Guy Website at http://www.visguy.com
Get my Visio Book! Using Microsoft Visio 2010

wynnyelle

Quote from: Visio Guy on May 28, 2009, 08:50:25 PM
Org charts look like family trees, but they don't quite function the same, because there are always "two managers", if you know what I mean. The data import and automatic features of the org chart wizard won't be able to handle this unless each pair of parents is somehow combined into a single entry...


um...no, actually I don't know what you mean...lol. If you're asking how many people will be working on this project/file, it'll only be me.

Visio Guy

An org chart has a tree structure where one manager has zero or more reports.

A family tree has two "managers" (mom and dad) with zero or more reports (kids). The structure seems similar, but is quite a bit different. It's like a tree that goes in both directions.
For articles, tips and free content, see the Visio Guy Website at http://www.visguy.com
Get my Visio Book! Using Microsoft Visio 2010

Nikolay

If you need to "just draw that family graph/tree" then probably you can do it easier with graph layout engine?
Consider e.g. GraphViz http://www.graphviz.org/ (it's free)
First you write/generate the description of your "family tree/graph" like this (in "dot" language):

digraph RPG {

"Mom1" -> "John";
"Dad1" -> "John";

"Mom2" -> "Mary";
"Dad2" -> "Mary";

"John" -> "IceQueen"
"Mary" -> "IceQueen"

"Mom3" -> "Fairy";
"Dad3" -> "Fairy";

"Mom4" -> "TeddyBear";
"Dad4" -> "TeddyBear";

"Fairy" -> "UnknownBeast";
"TeddyBear" -> "UnknownBeast";

"Mary" -> "AnotherUnknownBeast";
"Dad4" -> "AnotherUnknownBeast";
}


Then you run "dot" tool with this input file, and it produces something like the following:



You can tune the look and feel, insert pictures, etc in dot file.

Visio Guy

For articles, tips and free content, see the Visio Guy Website at http://www.visguy.com
Get my Visio Book! Using Microsoft Visio 2010

wynnyelle

That's...not quite the look I'm going for although it's a solution of sorts. Is there a way to do it without arrows? {although I'm beginning to think arrows might be good just for the lines from the parents down to the children} I want to use lines at right angles--it looks neater. Meaning only horizontal and vertical lines. Also, once this is constructed is it possible to move characters around {the square with the picture and info in it} and have the lines stretch with them and remain intact? That's important because this tree is getting fresh characters and connections added to it on a regular basis--several a week! :P

Thanks for the help so far, guys. I know that this isn't going to be easy, but whatever programme I need for it I will get. Ultimately if nothing in existence provides what I need it to, then I will begin to look into hiring a programmer to design something custom for me.

This is a lifelong hobby, and therefore I pull all the stops.

Would it be helpful if I whipped up a visual for you guys in Photoshop or something just as an example of what I want it to look like? {a simple unit etc}

wapperdude

Perhaps a shape with a picture. 

In Visio, having lines with/without arrow heads is easy.  Don't know about GraphViz.  The only advantage that GraphViz might have is the ease of adding pictures to the shapes.  At least, they talk about that as a feature.  Too bad that OrgChart feature isn't built-in for all shapes in Visio.
Visio 2019 Pro

wynnyelle

#12
Once I had the process down I wouldn't mind taking a few extra steps. All I really need is just a programme to do it.

I guess I can start opening it up again and toying with it, but when I open it up I usually just sit there clueless. I don't even know where to start. Then I try a few times to start something but can't get it to do what I want it to. So I give up.

This is why I am thinking it just isn't possible with any programme in existence. I thought it would be very simple, but apparently not.

I am beginning to look into hiring a freelance programmer to create the programme to my specifications, but this was a last resort before paying that kind of money.

I do thank you again for all your patience with me.



Edit: I created a quick example of what I want it to look like. Very rough:




I apologise, I didn't know how to make straight lines in Photoshop but I want them all straight and at right angles. I decided yes I want the arrows, in certain areas. I don't know if you see where I indicated text...it's nearing 1 am and I just got a little tired to trot out a more accurate example...but it hopefully lets you see what I'm looking for and have designed. I have no question in my mind how I want it to look; I have planned out the style, background colour and appearance, text, info, symbols and use of colour to represent certain pieces of info as well as justifying all the generations each on their own row. I need to know what it will take to get this design out of my head and into an image. :)

wapperdude

Your picture was great!  It really captures and illustrates what you're trying to accomplish.

I think Visio may be very close to doing everything you'd like using just Basic shapes.  Automatically inserting the picture is the only weakness.  Pictures may be added, with a few steps, but it's not with a simple, single button push that the Org Chart environment provides.  However, that ought to be possible with the development of a macro.

Do you have Visio available?  If not, you can down load a free eval copy, full featured from here:  http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/visio/default.aspx

I quickly thru together a Visio replication of your drawing.  I did not put arrowheads on, that would take about 10 seconds to do.  Is this the sort of thing you'd like to see?  Placing the pictures is not automatic, but didn't take too long.

Wapperdude
Visio 2019 Pro

wynnyelle

I wasn't sure if you were being sarcastic there at first, since my example was a piece o' crap. I just wanted to quickly show what I'll be doing. Although if you look up top at the actual "tree" {more like a tangle} I want to convert, you'll know it's slightly more complex than that, but the connections and stuff will be pretty much just repeating ad infinitum the same basic steps. {Once I'm done with this monster I'll be glad to post back and show it all off.}

I do already have Visio 2000 installed. It's old, but the only version I have. Is that older than the link you provided? Even if it's old, I don't care as long as it does what I need it to which is actually pretty simple stuff. How did you throw your little doggie tree together? i mean, what were the steps and what version did you use for it?

Thanks again!