Author Topic: How to fragment multi-shape object and preserve details  (Read 17991 times)

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Jennifer

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How to fragment multi-shape object and preserve details
« on: September 07, 2020, 09:07:45 PM »
I have a shape that is the result of combining (combine operation) 6 concentric circles. Now I want to fragment it into 8 equal wedges each 60° wide. I drew 4 diagonal lines. (See attachment.)

But when I select it and choose Fragment, it fragments it down to the individual arcs.

How can I get each of the 8 wedges to keep the concentric arcs?

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vojo

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Re: How to fragment multi-shape object and preserve details
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2020, 10:33:45 PM »
for what you want, here is the recipe (note with shape "algebra", the order of operations is important).

1) draw your circles
2) center and middle them
3) separately, draw your lines
4) center and middle them
5) group the lines
6) center and middle the lines (top shape) and the circles (bottom shape)
7) ungroup lines....and circles as appropriate.
8) select all lines and circles
9) fragment
10)  pick a shape fragment in a pie segment
11)  hold down shift and pick all fragments of that particular pie segment
12) group the selection
13) either do all other pie sections same way or copy pie segment group and paste then rotate by N degrees (size & position window if precision is key)

Doing these kinds of recipes, leaves you with a static shape
(scales, rotates at group level but editing to group to move arcs or "manifold" is usually tricky)

Also, once you fragment, you lose control handles (yellow circles) and connection points and any color formatting you did

Jennifer

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Re: How to fragment multi-shape object and preserve details
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2020, 11:38:55 PM »
for what you want, here is the recipe (note with shape "algebra", the order of operations is important).

   . . .

Doing these kinds of recipes, leaves you with a static shape
(scales, rotates at group level but editing to group to move arcs or "manifold" is usually tricky)

Also, once you fragment, you lose control handles (yellow circles) and connection points and any color formatting you did

That works. Thanks. But it's a lot of work that I think should be unnecessary.

If either the Combine or Join operations really combined or joined anything in any permanent way, the Fragment shouldn't be able to undo them.

Just my opinion...
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vojo

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Re: How to fragment multi-shape object and preserve details
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2020, 06:54:39 AM »
so you want to remove the "undo" function?   seems crazy to me

Jennifer

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Re: How to fragment multi-shape object and preserve details
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2020, 09:14:57 AM »
so you want to remove the "undo" function?   seems crazy to me

Huh? I have no idea where you got that idea. Talk about crazy!

My point is that either Combine or Join should convert a multi-shape object into a single shape that cannot be broken apart by Fragment.
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Paul Herber

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Re: How to fragment multi-shape object and preserve details
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2020, 09:30:23 AM »
so you want to remove the "undo" function?   seems crazy to me

I think the word "disconnect" is meant here, rather than undo!
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 04:23:36 PM by Paul Herber »
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vojo

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Re: How to fragment multi-shape object and preserve details
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2020, 02:03:58 PM »
hmm....an "undoable" action....a "one way" function/action....hmm

implications
- means if you don't like what you get out of it, got to start over again...BTW, once the drawing is used on another system
  cant undo it if you wanted to.  (lost info of the original shapes not present in 2nd system so cant undo it).
- if that is what you want, then after you have your shape then copy/paste as an *.emf image or JPG/PNG into sheet.
- in general, not sure how useful a  "one way" function or action is to the developer of the resulting shape.
  (only one way I have seen is a bug around playing with pinx, piny, that corrupts the drawing...even if you get the shape under control, the sheet tab at the bottom gets messed up and have to delete entire sheet to get visio corrected)
- I am honestly not sure, but it may mean the resulting shape is treated as a simple "odd" 2d shape so color applies to whole shape.  (the union  would create a white shape with black edges ….could not change colors of portions of the shape).

with above said,  if a legit use for a one way function, maybe could do it via VBA or Macro.

Jennifer

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Re: How to fragment multi-shape object and preserve details
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2020, 03:28:03 PM »
hmm....an "undoable" action....a "one way" function/action....hmm do it via VBA or Macro.

Either I am speaking gibberish or you are not trying to understand. I am perfectly fine with the Undo function. My complaint is that the Fragment operation is also doing an undo, which, IMHO, it should not.
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Bork

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Re: How to fragment multi-shape object and preserve details
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2020, 03:02:54 PM »
An easy kludge for this shape is to use the Sector Graphical Tool in the Drawing Shape Tool Template under Visio Extras.  It is easy to stack the sectors, adjust distance between arcs, group sectors and make 5 copies. (You said you wanted 60 deg sectors, but your drawing showed 45 deg)  Recommend watching how you stack sectors on top of each other or turn off shape fill.  Recommend moving the group rotation point to the vector for easier alignment.  Benefit is shape can be Ungrouped and distance between arcs resized if desired, and you can have different colors between arcs if you leave fill on.  Disadvantage is group shape may change sector angle if you resize, so recommend starting off with required size.

Jennifer

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Re: How to fragment multi-shape object and preserve details
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2021, 12:31:08 AM »
Ok, now I have another version of the same problem -- unless I don't understand the solution.

I would like to be able to fragment a shape with text and have the text fragmented in the result. I've tried it with the text as the label of the shape and as a separate text box. In both, the text is lost after the fragmentation, as shown here:



Is there a way I can get the fragment of the text in each box fragment?
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Nikolay

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Re: How to fragment multi-shape object and preserve details
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2021, 04:13:29 AM »
To achieve this, you may need to convert the text to outline first IMHO. Not sure if Visio can do that, though.
In some other applications (e.g. Inkscape), this functions is called just that  - "convert text to outline".

Here is a (probably) related article by the Visio Guy:
http://www.visguy.com/2015/03/01/text-outlines-in-visio/

wapperdude

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Re: How to fragment multi-shape object and preserve details
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2021, 12:13:12 PM »
First, back to original problem, fragment does not respect either combine or join. It looks at the real shapes and does the fragmenting.  So, yes, a lot of steps.

Second problem.  Text is not a shape.  It may be owned by a shape, but it's behavior is different.  As Nikolay indicates, you need to convert the text, i.e., each letter, to a shape.  Visio has no direct function to do that.  So, you would need to import the text.  Nikolay's links are good place to start.
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Jennifer

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Re: How to fragment multi-shape object and preserve details
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2021, 09:04:41 AM »
To achieve this, you may need to convert the text to outline first IMHO. Not sure if Visio can do that, though.
In some other applications (e.g. Inkscape), this functions is called just that  - "convert text to outline".

Is Inkscape the best alternative to Visio for general drawing in your opinion? Or is there something better?

Thanks
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Nikolay

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Re: How to fragment multi-shape object and preserve details
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2021, 09:39:35 AM »
Inkscape is basically a tool more suitable to designers IMHO.
I mean, you could use it create vector images (such as logo images, vector icons, vector drawings, etc), not business diagrams.

In other words (IMHO):

If you want to build business diagrams, such as org charts, flowcharts, business processes, floor plans, etc using ready-to-use smart shapes, then Visio is great.
If you want to build shapes/designs, such as logo images, generic pictures, paintings, art works, site designs, etc then probably Visio is a wrong tool.

wapperdude

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Re: How to fragment multi-shape object and preserve details
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2021, 10:15:06 AM »
If you don't mind spending a little money, take a look at Affinity Designer.
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