Grouping & Ungrouping Issues

Started by DrGrafix, April 08, 2020, 04:24:28 PM

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DrGrafix

I'm running VISIO 10 on a Windows 10 PC, and I'm using it to design an aluminum fan shroud for my 1969 Camaro. Its going OK, except just a day or two ago, I ran into an issue where it looks like the drawing I created is permanently grouped and can't be ungrouped. I should note that I'm using a scaled drawing, and have saved the drawings as AutoCAD (DWG) files. So when I click my mouse on the shape, I get the dotted line around the shape with the rotating handle circle at the top in the middle. I have no intention of rotating this drawing, but I would like to edit it as I adjust some aspects of the drawing's shape and dimensions.

My end goal is to create a DWG file that I can give to a friend of mine who has a CNC Plasma Cutting table. Our intention is to cut the shape out of 16 gauge aluminum sheet, and then use a sheet metal brake to bend the corners to create a tray-like piece. I will attempt to post a picture or 3D illustration of the shroud that I created with Photoshop.





So those two were created with Photoshop and are basically illustrations to show the dual fan concept, the square holes will have soft rubber flaps to allow better airflow when the car reaches 35 mph and the fans are switched off.



Also Photoshopped, this kind of explains the desired end result.

Back to the grouping problem, if I even succeed in ungrouping, a window pops up showing something like 250,000 things that I don't know what they are and it starts counting from 1 and after 15-20 minutes it says Visio is not responding. I'm still baffled about the grouping problem mentioned above, and why I can't edit the drawing. So any advice on what I'm doing wrong? Or what I'm missing?  Should I create this in a VISIO (VSD) file and then when I'm finished export/save as a AutoCAD file? I am not CAD savvy, and we have tested a sample file on his CNC machine and it reads the VISIO created DWG file perfectly.

TIA-Mike

wapperdude

Since your comfortable editing with Visio, save your export to DWG to the end.  All those bazillion little pieces are the result of Visio converting to the CAD file.  You might want to follow Vojo's advice and do this in a CAD program.  If for no other reason, the bazillion pieces might eventually cause an issue with the CNC cutter.

This isolation thing is going to last awhile.  Plenty of time to learn a CAD program.

Stay healthy.
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Visio Guy

I saw "69 Camaro" and had to post my old ride...
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wapperdude

Who's the young guy???

Well, don't have a nice pic, I had a blue, '67, Camaro RS.  Had the louvred headlights, 327, 4-spd. Fun cars.
Visio 2019 Pro

Visio Guy

So let me get this straight, before I ask any more questions:

  • You created the drawing in Visio?
  • You have tested Visio-created drawings, which were exported to CAD, then worked fine with the CNC?

I'm not sure where the ungrouping problem creeps in, nor the thousands of bits. Seems to me that if it was originally drawn in Visio, it would be less than 100 circles and rectangles.

Is it possible you exported to CAD, then re-imported to Visio and lost the original Visio bits?
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DrGrafix

Quote from: wapperdude on April 08, 2020, 05:37:56 PM
Since your comfortable editing with Visio, save your export to DWG to the end.  All those bazillion little pieces are the result of Visio converting to the CAD file.  You might want to follow Vojo's advice and do this in a CAD program.  If for no other reason, the bazillion pieces might eventually cause an issue with the CNC cutter.

This isolation thing is going to last awhile.  Plenty of time to learn a CAD program.

Stay healthy.

Thank you for reminding me that drawing in Visio and _THEN_ saving to DWG is the correct route! I was smart enough to save a multitude of steps that allowed me to reconstruct in pure Visio within an hour or so. Pretty easy to save it as a PDF as well as a JPG.



I had a leftover roll of that heavy cardboard floor liner they sell at Home Depot so I cut out a chunk and laid out the shroud flat with an old fashioned T-Square and triangle, then proceeded to cut it out for a test fit. The fit was perfect, but I also found that I could "thicken" the "wing" sections by an 1/8" without increasing the overall depth of the finished piece so as to give the fan blades even more room in that section. I also found that the top flat could be extended 1/8" so I changed that as well.



I sent my buddy Stan a simple undimensioined file last week. I just sent a rectangular shape with two large circle cutouts and also the flap vent holes. We just wanted to see if his CNC CAD program would work with it.  He was able to import it, open it, and even edit it. He changed the flap holes from 90° hard corners to radiused  ones... I guess the term is adding a fillet?  So... so far so good.

I've already revised the drawing and I'm going to send it to him today, and also to a couple of other guys I know who also have CNC cutters. One of them has a water jet at his shop, he wants to look at my drawings. The third guy is a local hobbyist/tinkerer who has a 4 foot plasma table and access to a brake as well.

Wrapperdude... I agree 110% on we're going to have a lot of time on our hands over the next few months. I saw Dr. Fauci being interviewed this weekend and he said its quite possible we could be looking at November as far as how long this first round will last. He said he _hopes_ it's not that long, but until we test a much bigger sample we're still in the woods. We rank 44th in the world as far as per capita testing goes.  Apparently testing 30 million out of 330 million is not even a good benchmark.

I may try to get a handle on CorelCAD.  I've been a CorelDRAW user since its inception, and supposedly they've tried to make it as user friendly as possible.  And while I don't anticipate a lot of CAD projects in my future, it would be nice to know the basics.

OK... back to the "Drawing Board" LOL... everyone stay home, stay safe, protect yourself and your families.

wapperdude

Looks like you've made excellent progress.  Before I retired, had a work buddy who had a waterjet setup.  He did some impressive "carvings".   Be it'll be interesting to see how laser vs water compares.
Visio 2019 Pro

Paul Herber

Quote from: DrGrafix on April 13, 2020, 04:16:44 PM
... as well as a JPG.

Just one small point, save as a .PNG, not JPG. JPG is good for photos, not images of this sort.
<Pedant? Moi?>
Electronic and Electrical engineering, business and software stencils for Visio -

https://www.paulherber.co.uk/

DrGrafix

Quote from: Paul Herber on April 13, 2020, 07:16:21 PM
Quote from: DrGrafix on April 13, 2020, 04:16:44 PM
... as well as a JPG.

Just one small point, save as a .PNG, not JPG. JPG is good for photos, not images of this sort.
<Pedant? Moi?>

Thanks Paul... can a PNG be seen in emails? I can't recall that I've ever tried that. 

OK, for the guys who are gear heads, here's a video clip my Blue Beast. Friend of mine started the project and then came across a legit 69 Z/28 that he wanted to totally restore, needed money because buying date confirmed Z/28 parts is very expensive. So I bought the car semi-finished and trailered it home. Been working on it almost 5 years, added power front disc brakes (it had manual drums), a full SS 3" exhaust system with ceramic coated Hooker Competition headers, complete new electronic dash/instruments, custom carpeting, rebuilt the entire front end with modern tubular Control arms, Hotchkis 2" lowering springs, HD Helwig sway bar, added a quick steering box, a lot of aesthetic stuff, and right now I'm adding the new radiator, a full serpentine belt system, Vintage Air, and the RS hidden headlight front end. Gathering parts for a complete new POSI rear, already have the donor rear housing, Hotchkis leafs, 3.42 ring/pinion, RightStuff rear discs (saving up for new POSI and HD Axles). Car has a mild Comp Cammed 461 cubic inch BBC, built by Finger Lakes Machine up in Syracuse, makes about 525 at the crank, trans is a freshly rebuilt BW Super T10 4-speed. Not a race car, just a very healthy cruiser that handles a LOT better than a stock 69 Camaro. 


Paul Herber

Quote from: DrGrafix on April 15, 2020, 02:07:45 PM
Quote from: Paul Herber on April 13, 2020, 07:16:21 PM
Quote from: DrGrafix on April 13, 2020, 04:16:44 PM
... as well as a JPG.

Just one small point, save as a .PNG, not JPG. JPG is good for photos, not images of this sort.
<Pedant? Moi?>

Thanks Paul... can a PNG be seen in emails? I can't recall that I've ever tried that. 


Yes.
Electronic and Electrical engineering, business and software stencils for Visio -

https://www.paulherber.co.uk/

wapperdude

#10
Missing the video...
Sounds like it'll be a sweet ride.  Never did that much to any car.  Very impressive.  Re handling:  I found the 67 RS to be very predictable, especially doing 4 wheel drifts.  Ran with regular bias ply tires, not radials.  More predictable for the break-away point and re-traction was smoother.

Found 1970 35mm slide with pic of the Camaro.
Visio 2019 Pro

DrGrafix

Got an interesting comment from my buddy Stan. I sent him both files, the dimensioned PDF file, and the plain part file which is just the basic shape... saved as a DWG. He's able to open it just fine with his program... I think its Seimens Solid Works? Anyway, he has the ability to modify it, and while he was removing the fill, some odd ball shapes appeared inside the large circular fan cutouts. It was like there were hidden layers? He's able to do a few things to delete them, but I was wondering if there's a way for me to check for any hidden layers in VISIO?