Background Size Dependencies

[kdjohannes]

Hi everyone! I am new to using Viso 2010 but have caught on pretty quick. I saw another thread similar to this topic (http://visguy.com/vgforum/index.php?topic=929.0) but because it was old and because this is still different in my opinion, I created a new one.

I am aiming to create a template for all of my process maps at work. I have created a .vst file and added a background page so that my "custom" background/template appears on every page. However, I don't want to limit myself to only a certain page size. I have set the default size to 11x17" which is what I print on and I have also set Auto Size on. However, when I start going off of the page, the template does not change with the page size. Here's the template I created (image attachment 17):


All of these are separate shapes. I want them all to expand/move/change depending on what part of the page is getting larger.
Here's what happens now (image attachment 18):



What I want to happen is the bottom right boxes to move over to the bottom right of the expanded page and for all borders to expand.

I've played around with different suggestions in the ShapeSheet tool based on what suggestions were made in the above thread. But nothing is fully working. Is what I want even possible?

Thanks in advance guys.

[kdjohannes]

Also if I need to change on I embedded my images let me know. I don't know how to get rid of the scroll bar. I attached them as well in case the links didn't work...google drive is weird.

[brandyph]

I recreated your scenario and my background adjusted to any size I selected.   Maybe because I'm using 2013 Pro.

I started with 8.5 x 11 and changed it 10 11 x 17 and the background stretched as required.

1.  I opened a "New" diagram
2.  Selected a "Blank"
3.  Went to "Page Setup" and selected 8x11
4.  Went to "Design" and selected "Backgrounds"
5.  Selected "Shapes"
7.  Moved the "Shape" to the edge
6.  Went back to "Page Setup" and selected 11x17

The "Background" stretched to an 11x17

I may be wrong in how I created a background

Sorry, I wish I could help more.

[kdjohannes]

So what you did and what I did are different, but what you did showed me something interesting. So you used a default Visio background (I'm assuming), which from what I know, is just a simple image or shape. I just did the same exact thing you did and got the result you did. The background grew, stretched, etc to whatever the page size was changing to.

However, what I did was make a custom background with many shapes. I'm going to compare the shapesheet data for the Visio background shape to the data for my individual shapes. Maybe I can get it to work by copying the formulas!

Note: I also have my shapes in the background protected to prevent anyone from changing things if they accidentally click on that background tab. I don't know if that has any effect on this or not.

I recreated your scenario and my background adjusted to any size I selected.   Maybe because I'm using 2013 Pro.

I started with 8.5 x 11 and changed it 10 11 x 17 and the background stretched as required.

1.  I opened a "New" diagram
2.  Selected a "Blank"
3.  Went to "Page Setup" and selected 8x11
4.  Went to "Design" and selected "Backgrounds"
5.  Selected "Shapes"
7.  Moved the "Shape" to the edge
6.  Went back to "Page Setup" and selected 11x17

The "Background" stretched to an 11x17

I may be wrong in how I created a background

Sorry, I wish I could help more.

[kdjohannes]

I compared the two ShapeSheet data. It's not going to work that simply. The difference is because my background has multiple shapes, where a default (that I used at leasT) is only 1 shape. When I go to a single shape the first section in the ShapeSheet is 1-D Endpoints. Whereas in the single Visio background there is no section like that. So I selected all to maybe see if I could make it act like the Visio background. I changed the Shape Transform cells to match the Visio background cells and all it did was make everything disappear!

Yesterday I got to the point where I could make the border lines in my background fit the page size (using the ShapeSheet formulas) but then when the page size changed back to what it was, the lines went off the page. I couldn't figure out how to make them change automatically in whatever direction the page was "growing" in. I don't mind having to edit each individual shape in my background as long as it works! I'll only have to do it all once theoretically.

[brandyph]

Background shape after I reset the page back to 8.5x11

[brandyph]

I'm lost... Everything works on my part...

Maybe I'm not the correct person to solve this problem.

[kdjohannes]

What you're showing is what I got too but only when I use the Visio backgrounds.

I did it differently with my "custom" background - see the images I uploaded. Becuase my background has more shapes than just the one image it isn't working for me.

[brandyph]

See if this will work...

I'm lost at what you are trying to do

[wapperdude]

If I understand correctly, you want the following:
1.)  The background page to scale with the drawing page
2)  The "zone frame" to scale with the background page
3)  The Title Block to always be in the lower right corner.

For Item 2 above, have you referenced the Title Blocks stencil?  It has both zone shapes and title block shapes.  If you haven't, you might want to take a look at those.  The zone shapes automatically scale to the page width and height upon drop and whenever the page size changes.  Check out the formulas for width and height.  To work properly, does require the use of the "anti-scale" scaling factor.

For item 3 above.  This is a grouped shape, with the LocPinX set to the far right and LocPinY set to the bottom of the group shape.  That means, you can easily specify the PinX and PinY for the group and fix it's location.  Lets say you want the shape to be recessed from the bottom right corner by 1/2".  So, set the PinX = guard(ThePage!Pagewidth - 0.5 in), and set PinY=guard(ThePage!Pageheight*0 + 0.5 in)

Regarding Item 1), I believe the following should work, but, I don't have V2010 or newer, so can't say how the autosize feature impacts page growth, i.e., does it add a page, or does it grow the page?  Adding a page could be a problem...possibly. 

Let's say it grows the page.  Then, modify the background shapesheet such that it's width = Pages[Page-1]!ThePage!PageWidth and it's height = Pages[Page-1]!ThePage!PageHeight.  This formula may not work if autosize adds a 2nd page.  Also, if other drawing pages use the background page, and are not the same size as the Page-1, well, let's say things get weird.

I'm not sure that you ought to use autosize.  What happens is it "grows" pages so you can keep drawing, but, when you print, your drawing will be split to multiple pages.  Generally, a title block is found on every page, and the zone shape is applied to every page.  The autosize scenario won't do that.  Turn it off.  Your options are (1) adjust the drawing scale so you get more parts per page, or (2) manually add a 2nd page, with your overflow shapes, and link between the two pages for connectivity.  Something to consider, if appropriate and applies to your situation.

HTH
Wapperdude

[kdjohannes]

If I understand correctly, you want the following:
1.)  The background page to scale with the drawing page
2)  The "zone frame" to scale with the background page
3)  The Title Block to always be in the lower right corner.

For Item 2 above, have you referenced the Title Blocks stencil?  It has both zone shapes and title block shapes.  If you haven't, you might want to take a look at those.  The zone shapes automatically scale to the page width and height upon drop and whenever the page size changes.  Check out the formulas for width and height.  To work properly, does require the use of the "anti-scale" scaling factor.

For item 3 above.  This is a grouped shape, with the LocPinX set to the far right and LocPinY set to the bottom of the group shape.  That means, you can easily specify the PinX and PinY for the group and fix it's location.  Lets say you want the shape to be recessed from the bottom right corner by 1/2".  So, set the PinX = guard(ThePage!Pagewidth - 0.5 in), and set PinY=guard(ThePage!Pageheight*0 + 0.5 in)

Regarding Item 1), I believe the following should work, but, I don't have V2010 or newer, so can't say how the autosize feature impacts page growth, i.e., does it add a page, or does it grow the page?  Adding a page could be a problem...possibly. 

Let's say it grows the page.  Then, modify the background shapesheet such that it's width = Pages[Page-1]!ThePage!PageWidth and it's height = Pages[Page-1]!ThePage!PageHeight.  This formula may not work if autosize adds a 2nd page.  Also, if other drawing pages use the background page, and are not the same size as the Page-1, well, let's say things get weird.

I'm not sure that you ought to use autosize.  What happens is it "grows" pages so you can keep drawing, but, when you print, your drawing will be split to multiple pages.  Generally, a title block is found on every page, and the zone shape is applied to every page.  The autosize scenario won't do that.  Turn it off.  Your options are (1) adjust the drawing scale so you get more parts per page, or (2) manually add a 2nd page, with your overflow shapes, and link between the two pages for connectivity.  Something to consider, if appropriate and applies to your situation.

HTH
Wapperdude

Yes. You are on the same page as I am!

1. I am checking the title blocks out now. I'm checking the ShapeSheet formulas. What is the "anti-scale"?
2. I changed grouped my "zone frame" together. I didn't do that before (main issue). Then I changed PinX and PinY to what you described. To make it work I had to change LocPinX to just Width and LocPinY to Height*0. It works now!
3. I just need to figure out how to do the same with the connectors I used as title blocks on all 4 sides. Probably not the right way to do it...

The main reason I used AutoSize (which just grows the page by another full page size), was so I didn't feel "boxed in" as I started creating a map/flow. Essentially I would get so far and then run out of room, either at the bottom or the right (I start somewhere on the left). I guess I could see myself adding a page and using an offpage reference instead but I feel that it would be hard to follow...especially if more than one flow or section of the map needs to go onto the next page...I felt that I would be okay with taping together two 11x17 pages to show that it is one drawing and make it easier to follow. At the same time maybe I'm doing it all wrong to begin with!

The more I think about it the more I feel that I wouldn't feel boxed in if I had an off page reference. Then I could continue in the same place I left off on the opposite side of the page (left off on bottom, start on top of page 2).

Either way, I'm learning! Thanks for the help/advice.

[wapperdude]

When shapes are drawn, they inherit a size, related to the page on which they were drawn.  If you change the drawing scale, then the shape scales accordingly.  Sometimes, you don't want the shape to scale, e.g., a title block.  Preventing this scaling is the anti-scale parameter.  With Visio supplied shapes, as I recall, it's User.antiscale, or something like that.  This value is usually applied to width, height, and length quantities.

Wapperdude

[kdjohannes]

After a good amount of time trying to figure this out, I realized it was a lost cause and simply not worth it. I chose to stop auto-sizing the document and simply do off page references to extend my drawing where it needs to go. Easier to follow the flows and also easier to read once printed out.

[wapperdude]

I found the auto page size to be a nuisance and never use it.  It seems like a good idea, but for formatted drawings, nah!

Thanks for the feedback.  Perhaps with a little thought and effort, MS can transform this into a more robust feature.

Wapperdude