Author Topic: Line weight of 0pt still visible  (Read 1745 times)

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JohnGoldsmith

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Line weight of 0pt still visible
« on: June 20, 2016, 05:32:56 AM »
[This is a question that came from my 'Visio, a flyby for developers' video over at Channel 9]

"I'm a developer. I need to convert vsd file to pdf file in visio 2010. So I use “save as ” and select “*.pdf” file type to generate pdf file. Here comes the question. The 0.0 pt of lines' weight in visio become 0.14pt in pdf file.

I don't know why. And I can’t find methods to keep the 0 pt line weight after convertion with visio. Can you help me?
"
John Goldsmith - Visio MVP
http://visualsignals.typepad.co.uk/

JohnGoldsmith

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Re: Line weight of 0pt still visible
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2016, 05:34:41 AM »
I hadn't come across this one before, but you're quite right I can see that a line is still visible even when the weight is set to 0pt (in 2010, 2013 and 2016).

I think I would describe this as a bug, but maybe there's some design logic behind it.  In any case, a work around is to set the line pattern to 'None' (which is labeled as Dash Type in the line format dialog) and this should hide the line completely, including the PDF out.

Hope that helps.

Best regards

John
John Goldsmith - Visio MVP
http://visualsignals.typepad.co.uk/

KarryGood

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Re: Line weight of 0pt still visible
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2016, 08:40:57 PM »
Hi, John

Thank you, John!

But I want a visible line with 0pt lineWeight. And in pdf I wish the line is still visible although it's line weight is 0pt.

Because we have very large diagram. And after conversation to pdf, the line weight of 0.73pt can not show details when pdf zoom
in. And 0pt line weight can. So what we want is line with 0pt but visible after convertion to pdf :)

Is there any other solution?

Sincerely yours,

Karry

wapperdude

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Re: Line weight of 0pt still visible
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2016, 09:32:29 PM »
Well, this is curious, indeed.  One would think that a line with 0 pt line would have no thickness, and thus be invisible.  Not so in Visio, at least V2007.  It's like there is some minimum lineweight, below which Visio will not draw any less thickness.  I zoomed in on the line 3098%, the maximum.  Set lineweight to 0pt, and there it is.  It's possible to increase the point size to 0.035pt and not affect the drawn weight.  At 0.04pt, the line shows a noticeable jump in thickness.

So, there is either an intentional minimum width, or a bug. 

As for how pdf is rendered,  ??? , who knows.  There are multiple issues of converting Visio to pdf.  There are also multiple ways to do it.  But, pretty sure, this issue has not surfaced before.  Perhaps if you enter a non-zero amount, pdf will accept it.  I have my doubts.  Perhaps if you convert the drawing to some other format 1st, then import picture into pdf.

Wapperdude

vojo

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Re: Line weight of 0pt still visible
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2016, 12:27:27 AM »
in shapesheet line section

Tranparency cell = guard(if (lineweight=0pt, 100%,0%))

line disappears in visio 2013

the other option is

linecolor cell = guard(if(lineweight = 0pt, <background color>, black))

KarryGood

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Re: Line weight of 0pt still visible
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2016, 05:41:08 AM »
Lines of 0 pt in visio are like the 1st image.

After convertion to pdf, they become of 0.14 pt. Details lost because of the non-zero line weight. See the 2nd image



vojo

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Re: Line weight of 0pt still visible
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2016, 07:49:40 AM »
also...could put the lines on a separate layer....turn layer on or off as needed before PDF

wapperdude

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Re: Line weight of 0pt still visible
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2016, 09:29:43 AM »
@Vojo:  invisibility isn't desired, preserving the ultra-light line weight in pdf is the goal.



It's quite unlikely that conversion to will maintain such an ultra- light line weight.  Specifying 0pt line weight is unusual.  I would class s iffy that as more of a bug, than a feature on Visio's part. 

What is the size of your drawing page?  My guess at a work-around would be to increase the page size, then select everything on the page, change everything to  a larger line weight, say at least the smallest listed, non-zero option.  Then, with everything still selected,  drag and expand it to fit the new page.  This should preserve your details,  or repeat process until you get large enough drawing size to allow the need detail and a "normal" line weight.  That should import into PDF with no problems.

For printing, use the printer  to resize the drawing to  desired paper size...I think that should preserve your drawing detail for a hard copy.

Wapperdude

KarryGood

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Re: Line weight of 0pt still visible
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2016, 06:41:12 AM »
Thank Vojo for technical tips.

And thank @Wapperdude for your suggestion.

I've tried Wapperdude's way.

First, I set all shapes' line weight to 0.25pt which is smallest listed.
Then I expand all shapes to show all details.
And then I use "Page Auto Size" to fit the page size to the diagram.
Finally I export this page to pdf.

Yes, the pdf preserves details.
But there comes a new problem. The PDF is not complete because the visio page is too large.
The page size is 11100.4mm x 8693.9mm. And the pdf size is 507.941mm x 507.941mm. There seems a size limitation in pdf.
And my source visio page size is 1189mm x 841mm. That can be converted to pdf completely.

Karry

wapperdude

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Re: Line weight of 0pt still visible
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2016, 09:25:11 AM »
Hi Karry,
That indeed, is a large drawing!   ;D

There is one more step to do, to make this manageable for PDF.  You need to adjust your drawing page properties.  Set the drawing scale to be greater.  For example, if you had a drawing scale 1:200, make it 1:500.  Then, re-size the page to fit the contents.  Your page size should be, in this example, 2.5X smaller.  All of the features should be preserved.  The page ought to be small enough for PDF conversion.

Wapperdude

wapperdude

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Re: Line weight of 0pt still visible
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2016, 09:42:24 AM »
Went to my computer and tried this.  Well, the scaling worked, but, there's a loss of detail.  Tried setting custom line weight = 0.125 pt.  That provides improved detail and converts to PDF.  You can try other custom line weights, but at some point, there will be a minimum size PDF can resolve.

Ultimately, this gets close to your needs.  Not sure it is 100% of what you want.

Question:  considering the scale of the drawing, is it really necessary to have such fine detail?  To zoom in on such detail pushes the limits of both Visio and PDF.  Generally, to see the detail, one would make either "sections" or cutouts.  These could be shown as expanded views on the page...leads to "clutter" or on separate, additional pages.  Could even be linked to easily navigate back and forth.  This would completely avoid the resolution problem, the painful zooming in.

Something to consider.

Wapperdude
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 09:54:17 AM by wapperdude »

KarryGood

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Re: Line weight of 0pt still visible
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2016, 09:56:25 AM »
Went to my computer and tried this.  Well, the scaling worked, but, there's a loss of detail.  Tried setting custom line weight = 0.125 pt.  That provides improved detail and converts to PDF.  You can try other custom line weights, but at some point, there will be a minimum size PDF can resolve.

Ultimately, this gets close to your needs.  Not sure it is 100% of what you want.

Question:  considering the scale of the drawing, is it really necessary to have such fine detail?  To zoom in on such detail pushes the limits of both Visio and PDF.  Generally, to see the detail, one would make either "sections" or cutouts.  These could be shown as expanded views on the page...leads to "clutter" or on separate, additional pages.  Could even be linked to easily navigate back and forth.  This would completely avoid the resolution problem, the painful zooming in.

Something to consider.

Wapperdude

Hi, Wapperdude

You're so experienced in visio. I set the line weight to 0.125pt so I can get a pdf file with no details loss.
But the limitation is that diagrams in one page can not be very large or complicated. In our case, we have even much larger visio page to maintain. So your first way is not absolutely effective all the time.

The other way to show details as your suggestion is to make "sections" or cutouts. I think it's a constructive idea that we never used before. I will show it to my colleagues.

Thank you, Wapperdude!

Karry

wapperdude

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Re: Line weight of 0pt still visible
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2016, 10:16:06 AM »
Think of it like a world atlas, in printed media.  There's the map of the world, then continent maps, country maps, city maps.  Each on a separate page.  By necessity.  In digital domain, if you had the necessary resolution, all you need is the world map.  To see a city, you just zoom in to the desired spot.  Hmmmm.  Sounds  Google maps!   Except, they cheat, because the required resolution does not exist, plus, a single file would be very large!  So, without a sophisticated zoom algorithm, the next best is to use "pages" with good indexing, labeling, and linking techniques.

Wapperdude