Automate adding connection points at prescribed dimensions

[Yacine]

Thanks for inviting me to join the conversation.
I like very much the idea of this quick input method to configure your ports.
I see similarities to my P&IDs, where I need to connect ports of pneumatic cabinets to valves. In my case I will probably use control points with visible connectors instead of connection points.

For your specific question regarding the connection points, I would set up a formula that either shows that one point at the right place, depending on the number of ports, or put it on a "cemetery" position, where all the other not used points would land. (ie modify the coordinates of the points depending on a condition visible/or not)

Thanks for the idea.

[wapperdude]

I suspect that the "cemetery" idea is at the heart of David Parker's suggestion.  That is, pre-determine the max number of connections, disable those not needed.  The unused can be merely disabled or collected at the grave site.  Activation (and placement) could be via shape sheet formula based solely on shape stretched size, think accordian.  Visio already has some shapes that employ this technique.  Avoids a macro, adds some initial shape development time, restricted flexibility.

Wapperdude

[Yacine]

Yep!
and I would also try to unify the vertical and the horizontal versions as to have only one master left.

[RudySchneider]

As promised, here are the two Shape tools that, with assistance of David Parker at bVisual, I managed to create, and which do the job of automatically inserting connection points that line up with the connector pins.  Each has a Shape Data sheet that allows the user to specify the basic "look" of the connector (not to be confused with connection points), and fill in the appropriate text/numeric data for the connector designation and the connector pins.

And yes, I have thought about combining the horizontal and vertical versions into one, but the tool and shapesheets are already QUITE busy, so I'm good with one tool for each orientation.

[wapperdude]

Nice.  Clever idea to use the pin definitions to drive the number of connections and shape width. 

There are obviously some restrictions on the pin numbering, e.g., not allowed to have more than 2 characters, otherwise the numbers run together.  But, since there's a limited number of pins, that's probably a reasonable restriction.

Wapperdude

[Thomas Winkel]

Hi friends,

interesting topic and really nice Connector shape, Rudy.
Maybe you should consider to find another parking position for the unused connection points.
This could be a problem later when you write code to export a netlist.

I also use Visio for electric diagrams.
This is not exactly what you have asked for, but here is a video of my symbol generator in action:
http://youtu.be/sAc3o-6Fyo8

Regards,
Thomas

[RudySchneider]

Interesting stuff, Thomas.  If I were actually using Visio for true schematic capture, what you say might be true.  But I'm primarily using it visual representation only, either to embed within Word documents or for systems-level drawings, used as a visual aids to technicians in troubleshooting and tracking diagnostics issues. 

Since you brought it up, however, I, too, create my own symbols that are different from Visio's Engineering Stencils.  Where can I find out more about your symbol generator?

[wapperdude]

Maybe you should consider to find another parking position for the unused connection points.
This could be a problem later when you write code to export a netlist.

Actually, this isn't a problem.  Generating a netlist, typically uses the connections collection, i.e., connectors.  Basically, the approach searches for connectors with at least 1 connected end.  Connectors with no connections are not included in the collection.  Then, the connector is searched to see what shapes are attached, which by definition, are used connection points.  Unused connection points aren't considered.

An objection might be that the netlist should be shape-centric.  Well, just export to Excel and then sort the data as desired.

My objection to Visio-based schematic capture are the connectors and how they route.  They are TOO dynamic!  Read that as the routes are unpredictable, usually undesirable, and virtually impossible to manually place.  The alternative then, is to use line shapes, but their placement is at the other extreme of too rudimentary.  Most schematic capture systems (all ??) let you draw point to point, continuously extending the line until it is terminated.  Once placed, it stays put.

The other part of schematic  capture is just how sophisticated do you want to be?  Parts with pin numbers, names, reference designators, I/O type, various orientation views.  Generate netlists.  Check for netlist errors...floating nets, outputs driving outputs, automatically add/remove connection dots.  Switch between schematic / layout views.  Most of this is do-able, but, it departs from the simple, documentation philosophy, and, why?  There are free programs out there that do this, including generating parts lists.

But, I fear this topic is on the verge of being hijacked onto a new topic, so, my apology for going off on a tangent.

Wapperdude

[Thomas Winkel]

Where can I find out more about your symbol generator?

For the moment this is a private driven solution that we use in our company.
Maybe I will publish parts of it as Open Source later.

[Thomas Winkel]

Hi Wapperdude,

I totally agree with you about the dynamic connector behavior.
In this topic I committed some experiments, but none of them is really satisfying:
http://visguy.com/vgforum/index.php?topic=4897.msg19238
Of course there are better programs for schematic capture out there.
But programming Visio is so much fun
(The real reason is that there is nothing else available in our company...)

Here is my approach of netlist export:
http://youtu.be/3_liar0k4kw
And this would not work with overlaying connection points.

As the original question is solved it should not be too bad to hijack this thread
But here I tried to start an Visio schematic thread:
http://visguy.com/vgforum/index.php?topic=6188.msg25256
If you are interested we could exchange our experiences there.

Thomas

[Yacine]

They are TOO dynamic!

@Wayne,
As long as the connectors are set to never reroute, they behave good.
I haven't found out however how to set this up for the page or the document.
So I end up selecting from time to time the whole drawing and hit "never reroute".

[wapperdude]

 

Uh...there's a never re-route?   . Really?!?  I didn't know that!   

Unsigned   

[Thomas Winkel]

Hi Yacine,

you could use a custom connector from your stencil as I did in the video above.
Also you could customize the connector in the document stencil of your template.
Henceforward the Visio connector button will produce this customized connector in documents based on this template.
See also the second answer here:
http://superuser.com/questions/226521/how-can-i-change-the-default-properties-of-visios-connector-tool

With never re-route the routing behavior is bearable, but still not optimal.
For instance there is no suitable way to connect connectors with connectors.

[Yacine]

@Unsigned:     That's the price I pay, when I try to teach old monkeys. 
@Thomas: Thanks. Didn't know this one.

With never re-route the routing behavior is bearable, but still not optimal.
For instance there is no suitable way to connect connectors with connectors.

On the other hand, I wouldn't know about any software handling this issue in a better way.

[wapperdude]

@Thomas: 

For instance there is no suitable way to connect connectors with connectors.

Not sure what you mean by suitable way.  If gluing to shape geometry is enabled, this isn't a problem.  I've started a new topic in User-Submitted stuff concerning schematic capture system.  In this system, either dynamic connectors or line shapes may be used to interconnect schematic parts.  In addition connectors may be attached to either another connector or to a line shape and still maintain the necessary connectivity info.

Anyway, wanted to launch a topic that was clearly identified as schematic capture oriented.

Wapperdude