Space shape

[Jennifer]

I've been fiddling around with the Space shape, or at least what I think is the Space shape.

I found the shape I am using by searching for "space". The results of the search are in the attached screen shot.



I tried dragging both the "Space" and "Space 1.3" shapes onto my page. They both "work" in that I am able to change the shape of the shape, including irregular shapes, and the area is updated. But there is a problem.

The units are wrong. I dragged the shape to an 8.5 x 11 page and resized it to 2" by 2". This is confirmed by the Size & Position dialog. But the text in the shape says:

Office

256 sq. ft.

I tried the text tool, but that field is empty. I tried the Insert | Field option, but that is also empty.

I tried right-click | Set Display Options. I changed it from Square Feet to Square Inches. That changed the display from 256 sq ft to 36864 sq in. For some reason, it thinks it's a 16' by 16' room.

I tried right-click followed by Properties and Show ShapeSheet, but couldn't find anything that looked like what I need.

What do I have to do to get this to calculate area correctly and modify the text (to get rid of the "Office")?

I just want it to display the area in square inches, preferably with just the numbers rounded to integers.

Am I using the wrong shape? This one seems designed for buildings. Is there a general shape for generic areas?

Thanks

[Paul Herber]

The Space shape (as found in the Walls, Shell and Structure stencils) makes assumptions about the shape being used in architectural drawings of certain scales, not on 1:1 scale drawings. I think this is partly controlled by the Plan addin that gets invoked when the shape is dropped on the page. The shape is a grouped shape with the displayed text being in one of the groups sub-shapes. You need to use the drawing explorer to investigate deeper.

[wapperdude]

Adding to what Paul said:
1.)  Instead of 1:1 unitless default, set the page scale to something like 1 in = 1 in.
2.)  The space shape should give you the correct result now.
3.)  Right click the space shape > select display options > select sq inches for area units.
4.)  Don't think you can use the wall shapes for a scale this small.

HTH
Wapperdude

[Jennifer]

Thanks for those tips.

Setting the Drawing scale to "1 in = 1 in" caused the Space shape to use the right units, but only if it is set before the shape in placed. Changing the Drawing scale after a Space in placed has no effect.

Changing the display options got the right units displayed.

But there are still a few problems. Two are fatal and two are minor.

The first fatal problem may actually be a memory error on my part. It seems to me that when I tested the Space shape the other day, I was able to add new nodes (is that the right term?) using the line tool or the pencil tool or something. Today, I can't get that to work. I get the 4 corners and the 4 midpoints, but I can't add any more. My shapes need many inflection points. Is there a way to do that or am I crazy?

The other fatal problem is what happens when I move the edge beyond the initial rectangle and then move it back. Here are the steps:

• Place a Space shape and scale it to 10 in by 10 in. The text shows 100 sq. in.
• Using one of the line tools (it doesn't seem to matter which one), select the shape, hover over the shape until the inflection points appear, then drag the left vertical midpoint to the left 5 inches creating a semi-circle on the left. The area changes to 139.3 sq. in., which is correct.
• Now drag that same midpoint back to where it was. The area does not change back to 100 sq in. It still reads 139.3 and the left shape border remains out there where it was. If I drag the outside border back, the whole shape is scaled. A similar thing happens if I drag the midpoint inward and then back.

One minor problem is that the Space shape always comes in sized as 10 feet x 10 feet. If my page is 8.5 x 11 inches, I have to zoom out and scale it down. I realize that most of the shapes have a default size, but they ought to be smart enough to select a sized that makes sense for the page they are being placed on.

The other minor problem is the word "Office" in the display text. I'd like to get rid of it. But this is moot if the fatal problems cannot be resolved.

Thanks

[wapperdude]

Typically, you would:
1.  Set page scale 1st, before placing or drawing any shapes.
2.  Using the space shape:
     a. There is no need to modify the "nodes".  The shape will automatically match the "floor" shape.
     b. The normal process is:
         i. Draw your floor shape
        ii. Place the space shape on the floor shape
       iii. Resize the space shape so that it is within and surrounded by the floor shape.
       iv. Right click the space shape and select auto size.
        v. Pop-up menu will ask to select your floor shape.  Select and hit OK.
       vi. Space shape will automatically expand and fill the floor shape contour.
      vii. Change area units as before, as desired.

If you alter your floor shape, the space shape will not automatically track the changes.  You must repeat the steps above.

As far as the default size goes, if you have the Size and Position window open, you can type in new width & height values without changing the zoom.

Regarding the "Office" text:  If you click twice on the "Office" with the text tool, the text box will select and you can enter whatever you want.

HTH
Wapperdude

[Jennifer]

OK, I'll work on that. I should point out that the "space" I am trying to measure is not an office layout, which I realize is what this shape was designed for. It's the letters of a child's name, which will be turned into a jigsaw puzzle. I've attached an image of the image I want the area of.

I may be trying to force an irregular peg into a square hole.

I did find an online app called sketchandcalc that does exactly what I need. It's a little quirky and I would rather have something right in Visio, but I may have to go with what works.

Thanks

[wapperdude]

Hmmmm.  That sounds like fun.  I knew you weren't doing an office floor space, per se.  Could have been a doll house.

So, why the space shape?  Doesn't seem like it brings anything useful.  BTW, it just occurred to me, the space shape in V2010 may provide perimeter info.  I don't have a personal copy of V2010, so I cannot verify this....could be confusing it with something else...

Did a quick, simple test.  Drew a rectangle.  Drew a smaller circle on top of the rectangle.  Selected both, shape operations, combined.  This gives me a rectangle with a circular cutout inside.  Placed a space shape inside rectangle, small enough to avoid the cutout.  Did the autosize thing, and Viola! it worked.  Looks like it's OK to partially cover the cutout.  If you completely cover the cutout, space shape may only give you the cutout.

HTH
Wapperdude

[Jennifer]

OK, I'll play with that. Thanks.

I want to get the area and the perimeter. The space shape was the only built-in shape that I could find that would to either. If there's a better choice, I'd love to know about it.

Previously, I was drawing rectangles that approximated the major pieces of the shape with fields that reported their area. Then I just add them up. That actually works fairly well and was reasonably easy. I've attached an image of the "B" done using this method with three different approximations using 1, 3, and 7 rectangles. They all came out with the same area estimate.

I can get the perimeter using a similar method with straight lines that report their length.

I should just let it go. I've already wasted more time than it's worth.

I need the area because I want to calculate how many pieces the puzzle will have.

BTW: What about my two fatal problems with the space shape? The one may be just a misunderstanding on my part, but the other one seems like a bug.

[wapperdude]

Let's see...

1.  I don't know of any shape in V2007 or earlier that will provide both area and perimeter...but I could be wrong.  You could download a free trial of V2010 or newer to see if the space shape did get updated to do both.

2.  I actually did address your two fatalities.
     a. The first regarding adding / moving nodes is unnecessary.  The shape will automatically (well, semi-) expand to fill your shape.  See steps listed above.
     b.  2nd fatality deals with resizing.  Yes.  You have to start the process over.  Space shape will not track your shape changes.

Something to be aware of:
When you figure the area of each letter and how many you can get into your puzzle there are two issues:
     a.  For letters like "B" or "O" you need to area of the outside footprint, not just the actual area of the letter itself.  So, you need to include the cutouts.
     b.  The letters don't neatly stack side-by-side to use 100% area.  Letters like "t" or "h" or "e" and many capitals have a lot of wasted area.  Even with creative placement, there will still be wasted areas.  A basic rectangle around each letter ought to give you a better approximation.

Wapperdude

[Jennifer]

The auto-size feature doesn't work for my shapes because they are all seen as rectangles by the shape. If I create the letter using a text block, then the shape the space shape sees is the text block, not the letter, so it auto-sizes to the text block. If I convert the letter to a graphic image, even one with a null background, it still comes in as a rectangle, because, as far as I know, Visio is ignorant about null backgrounds.

However, some of your prodding nudged to find a work-around. All I have to do is trace the letter using the line tool making a closed shape. Now the space shape sees it as an irregular shape and will auto-fit to it just fine. I can even adjust the lines to make then fit the curves of the letters.

I've attached another image containing three examples:

1. The space shape auto-fitted to a text block containing the letter B. It auto-fit to the text block, ignoring the letter.

2. I traced the letter using the line tool, making a closed shape. I then auto-fitted a space shape to the line shape. The space shape did the auto-fit correctly.

3. Using the line tool, I adjusted the vertices and edges so that they more closely fit the outline of the letter. Most of the lines are now curves. I then auto-fitted a space shape to the adjusted line shape. Again, it worked perfectly.

So then I went back and tried this method on the "B" I had previously used the rectangle method on. The results are in the second attachment. The first three images are the same as before.

Image #4 is with the space shape autofitted to the tight-fitting line shape. The area, 17.3, is larger than the rectangle methods, because of the cutouts.

Image #5 solves that problem. Before placing the space shape, I placed an oval over each cutout. Then, when the space shape asked me to select the shape, I selected all three: the outline and both ovals. Voila (or Eureka or Holy Mackeral). It auto-fitted to the outline and deleted the cutouts. Amazing. And the result, 16.7, is very close to my results using the rectangle method.

This is a little bit of a hassle, but very workable. It's roughly as much work as the rectangle method, but has a couple of advantages.

Anyway, thanks for nudging me to find a solution. Now I have to go do some real work! 

[Jennifer]

Adding to what Paul said:
1.)  Instead of 1:1 unitless default, set the page scale to something like 1 in = 1 in.
2.)  The space shape should give you the correct result now.
3.)  Right click the space shape > select display options > select sq inches for area units.
4.)  Don't think you can use the wall shapes for a scale this small.

HTH
Wapperdude

All of these steps were working until a few minutes ago. Now, for some reason, Step 3 won't work.

If I right-click the Space shape, I get the usual pull down. One of the options is "Set Display Options...". But when I click on it (or type "D", the keyboard shortcut), nothing happens.

This was working earlier this morning? What could I have done? 

PS: Update. I closed and restarted Visio and it is working again. What the heck is happening?